Pretty
Via Ben, I’m really glad Kazakhstan has no other problems than how to light its not-fake capital’s overly elaborate 10th anniversary. Like Ben, I think that even if it hadn’t been canceled I could imagine Uncle Nazzy wanting this thing put on. Last I was in Astana, I had the dubious pleasure of watching a light and laser show over the Ishym river, which featured a holographic Michael Jackson doing the moon walk through a huge water spray thing. So umm, yeah, it could happen.
Pic: Ahh Kazakhstan, where the men sing of you in songs and the women pray to your image… if you happen to own the entire country.
While in Astana and Almaty, and some of the second-tier cities (I’m looking at you, Karaganda), things are mostly alright and mostly getting kind of better, Kazakhstan’s grinding poverty in the vast majority of its countryside is a major black mark on its status as a mature, powerful country. There is no denying the progress so far, but Nursultan Nazarbayev’s latest scheme to look super-awesome has a bit of a potemkin feel to it.
And irony of ironies, this huge celebration is planned for… July 4th.
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Tags: Kazakhstan.
Posted by Joshua Foust on June 21st, 2008
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Comments
Time: 6/21/2008, 8:25 pm
I wonder how much input the government put into this. It’s possible the German design company [Circus of Now] did this all on spec. The profit they stood to make if Astana and Kazakhstan had agreed to pay for the light trucks, LED banderole, projections sails for Baiterek, big screens for the sides of the Presidential Mall… well, putting together a spiffy 3D rendered light show is a drop in the bucket. What I mean to say is, there is no link to a news story in Kazakhstan saying this is a canceled plan. Perhaps it never was a plan, but just a sales pitch from a light-show designing firm looking for the big sale. It’s certainly right up Nazarbaev’s alley, there’s no denying that. You all should check out the video - it’s pretty amazing to imagine it actually happening.
Maybe next year, or later for Kazakhstan’s 20th anniversary of independence… but, that’s right, that’s in December. The depths of steppe winter is no time for light shows. No wonder they’d prefer Astana’s birthday on the 4th of July!
Time: 6/22/2008, 2:55 am
I has always been envying countries like Brazil for these awesome festivals or USA for marching band parades and wondering why there can’t be something like that in Kazakhstan. What the problem? The girls can dance even better (men don’t dance though). The problem is that all holidays in Kazakhstan are in almost winter time - Independence Day, Nauryz, New Years, Republic Day. No way you can make semi-naked ladies dance or musicians play brass.
So, I guess “Uncle Nazzi” had similar thoughts and he is establishing this new holiday in summer!
Probably, he also thought: hell with poverty. There always be poor people, but even poor people should have chance to celebrate something!
Time: 6/23/2008, 7:41 am
Oldschool Boy, the problem is most certainly not with celebrating independence. Believe me, as an American, I think such a thing should be celebrated, and gloriously. It is more the Dubai-esque gaudy scale of the display that made me scratch my head. All it does is reinforce just how uneven the country’s development has been. In the U.S., every town organizes its own parade and fireworks display, and the big cities have more elaborate displays. I don’t think even our bicentennial was that ridiculous, however. Lots of things that go bang, for sure, because that’s friggin’ awesome.
Time: 6/23/2008, 1:29 pm
The Kazakh elite are master’s of conspicuous consumption.
Time: 6/23/2008, 1:31 pm
The Kazakh elite are masters of conspicuous consumption.
Time: 6/23/2008, 3:43 pm
And I am master of redundant posting and misuse of apostrophes.
Time: 6/23/2008, 4:58 pm
Well, isn’t it a logo of the market economy: Consume!
But seriously, you never know what is right and what is wrong. Of course one would say the money could be better spent on some poverty reduction projects in some remote areas. However, the recent remarkable economy growth in Kazakhstan happened in part due to construction activities including all this construction in Astana (and as far as I remember from Economics, gevernment spending is one of the main ways to boost economic growth). It was providing jobs to hundreds of thousands people including engineers from Japan, Korea, Western Countries, seasonal workers from Uzbekistan, Kirgizstan, Tajikistan, etc.
I totally agree that even development of small towns is much better, but I guess in countries like Kazakhstan, the standards have to be set somewhere in the centre.
Besides, it involves a lot of political and ideological things, same as Olympic Games in China or Russia.
By the way I do not really understand what some western people have with the projects in Dubai. It just seems pure envy. People have their rights to spend their money as they want. Besides, these projects are probably no problem for those thousands of western engineers and millions of asian workers involved in them.
Time: 6/23/2008, 5:05 pm
The Kazakh elite are masters of conspicuous consumption.
Not just elite. Even poor kazaks tend to spend too much on celebrations, guests, weddings, family events, etc. It is genetic.
Time: 6/23/2008, 9:17 pm
Oldschool Boy, if you think the construction of Astana has anything to do with Kazakhstan’s economic success, you’ve bumped your head. I know that’s what the party line is, that Astana is awesome because Kazakhstan is awesome, but you should know it’s not true. Kazakhstan’s economic success has a lot more to do with Uranium, Coal, Gas, Oil, and various other resources being harvested in Kazakhstan’s sovereign territory.
If you think Westerners are envious of Dubai, it really shows how little you understand about Westerners. You would do well to remember who is copying who. When the US starts to look more like UAE or Russia, for that matter, then you’ll know we’re oh so jealous.
Sorry if I came down hard on this, it’s just that this isn’t the first time I’ve heard that. There’s such a thing as actual disgust with shiny things, especially things which have no other characteristic besides shiny.
Time: 6/23/2008, 9:22 pm
And another thing!
The Ishym River! Ha! What a joke. More like the Ishym mosquito breeding farm! Seriously - the fact that you’d damn a minor rivulet to create a river-shaped lake… it completely confuses. Is Kazakhstan ashamed to be from the steppe, or something? Last I checked, the steppe was a dry, flat, wind-swept place of rather poet harshness and beauty. It doesn’t exactly scream for tree-shaded boulevards and quiet riverwalks. That’s more Vienna’s thing, or perhaps St. Louis’. Astana, however, is one rich president’s dream, and it’s going to “come true” one way or another, whether it’s called Astana or Nursultan or Kazak-bashi.
Time: 6/24/2008, 1:22 am
So you suggest that kazakh people live in yurts or dens?
and, what is wrong with Ishim river? As far as I remember “river” means a natural stream of water flowing toward a sea, ocean, lake or another river.
Ishim is a natural stream of freshwater water with total length of 2,450 km (for americans 1,530 miles) with total catchment area of 177,000 sq. km. It starts in Niyaz mountains and inflows into Irtysh River. It is larger than, for instance, Potomac River (665 km, 38,000 sq.km) or Hudson River (507 km, 36,000 sq. km). These rivers flow through the USA capiatl city Washington, DC and the largest USA city New York.
Yes, may be Astana is a dream of the Kazakh President. So what? He dreamed of the city and he got the City. Let me remind you of one particular president of one particular country who dreamed of democracy in Irak, but got war. Who dreamed of cheap oil but got expensive oil.
Time: 6/24/2008, 3:18 am
It’s a fact that Kazakhstan, or at least its elite and socially mobile, have a deep complex.
Last time, not too long ago, I spent 1.5 months in the country and it really stroke me: “Look, we have this now just like in Europe and that just like in the US…” It’s like the attitude of a provincial who has money but is frustrated because he is not taken seriously by the urban jetset.
I have been in and following the situation in the country since late 1996. Understandably, Kazakhstani society in the mid-90s coped very badly with the humiliation of general impoverishment (down to outright Third World levels in some parts of the country like Kyzyl Orda, Zhambyl, … ) and loss of status. One can say that the crisis this country went through back then was mental in the first place. Today, many Kazakhstani (especially those in Almaty) do not like to be reminded that once upon a time, less than 10 years ago, their country escaped starvation thanks to outside ‘largesse’-strings attached (well, the reality is more complex of course but that’s how it’s seen by many).
Who’s copying who indeed? The only thing is, and many socially mobile Kazakhs realise that somehow, that, no matter how much they try, they will never be taken seriously or considered as equals by those that they try to imitate (the West, the new Russians).
There’s indeed a lot of façade and illusion of prosperity but you don’t have to go walk that far from the Gucci and Lancôme boutiques in Almaty to find that “other Almaty” – one that few expats and correspondents know. Where you’ll find the masses of impoverished rural migrants who try to eke out a living a petty traders, day labourers etc. A group whose life changed little compared to 1997 when I first came to Kazkahstan. It show that the real faultline in this country is no longer between Kazakhs and Russians but between those who benefited form the Nazarbayev reign (that group include a number of ethnic Russians) and those who have not (or did but see further amibitions blocked).
Apart from this, I think it’s one of the more interesting countries in the region and I’m curious to see how it will
(d)evolve further.
Time: 6/24/2008, 6:51 am
Turgai, I agree with you totally. If I come down hard on Kazakhstan, it’s because I love it and miss it. I lived there for two years outside of Shymkent. I really think Kazakhstan has more and better things to offer than a plastic capital. As for Ishim being “bigger” than the Potomac, that’s a weird comparison. Does size matter now? And you’re not talking size, but length - is Cairo a better capital because the Nile is so long? I don’t think the Mississippi’s length does much for the prestige of New Orleans. Old School Boy, you know as well as I do that the Ishim is barely navigable inside Kazakhstan, and only once it gets to Russia does it became a river that you would have a hard time swimming across. This isn’t an attack on your country, just on the bizarre aspects of the capital.
Time: 6/24/2008, 11:43 am
Michael
I do not understand you. You do not like Ishim. You do not think it has to be called a river. So make your own geographic term for the water bodies like Ishim, call them “innavigable moskito breeding farms with backward steppe dorks living on them” if you like and introduce the term to the world. And under no term any city should be allowed to be build on these moskito farms. I am pretty sure all geographic societies will be happy.
Another thing you should do: you should make a proposal to UN that all kazakh people should live in yurts or dens only, arabic people must go back to their tents, native americans to tepees. Under no term these nations should think of having cities with “tree-shaded boulevards and quiet riverwalks”. No, only cities like St. Louis or Vienna, where blessed Western people live should have these features. The best model of a city for kazakhs or russians should be GULAG, if that is what you want. And then you should ask Mr. G.W. Bush to bomb, may be, Dubai, because it is too shiny, and shiny can not be good or democratic.
Oh, by the way, why am I still on Internet? I should probably throw my computer away and go take care of my herd, if that is what the White Sahib wishes.
Time: 6/24/2008, 11:48 am
Turgai,
You do not want to start this discussion about complexes that nations have. So you better not.
Time: 6/24/2008, 3:26 pm
Oldschool Boy, my apologies for hurting your pride. The Ishim is a fine river, Astana is a wonderful city, and Dubai is where the future truly lies. And Kazakhs can live anywhere they damn well please, yurt, the lion’s den, or some apartment block. And Vienna and St. Louis should be ashamed of themselves for being party to my point’s ridiculous illustration.
[Insert snarky comment cynically calling you to reconsider just what you’re so mad about, exactly, here]
Time: 6/24/2008, 11:01 pm
Michael,
you have spent 2 years in Kazakhstan and you don’t know its people. Kazakhs go “an extra mile” when it comes to celebrations and 10 year anniversary of their beloved capital is not just a City Day , it has a more profound meaning. It is a summary of the capital’s achievements and celebration of kazakh people’s unity in pursuit of the goals they set for themselves. You, certainly, do not understand the meaning of it all, and the extend of festivities astounds you. Poverty in other parts of the country will be there for many years to come, just like I will see it in some parts of the US and Canada, but , hey kazakh people can celebrate and live their lives to the fullest. I have been a witness to many birthday parties westerners throw for their kids ….a couple of cupcakes and a dozen of baloons, BBQ at best….seems like such a shame to me, coming from a country where a lamb has to be killed in every guest’s honour. When we make a present - we don’t count money, when we throw a party - it’s a shame when your guests are not fully satisfied…so next time you are in Kazakhstan live up to our standards…mmm and if you can’t - mind your own business!
Time: 6/25/2008, 2:47 am
“You do not want to start this discussion about complexes that nations have. So you better not.”
Aha and why not? Because I’m right on target perhaps?
Time: 6/25/2008, 2:12 pm
Turgai, my regrets for not following your advice. Reminds me of “He’s not fat, he’s my brother.” Apparently no one else is allowed to criticize Kazakhs but the Kazakhs. I certainly don’t think only Americans are allowed to talk about America. “Mind your own business.” If you wanted Americans to mind their own business, then you’d best stop reading this blog - I’m afraid all we do is attempt to make Central Asian and related areas relevant to our business. What a shame that on this page you can actually find Americans and other Westerns who actually know that Kazakh is a language and not some made up word. If only we’d mind our own business…
And so what if I lived there for only 2 years - I’m not passing judgment on anything. I could make such criticisms about Astana or Dubai’s spending even if I was some kid from Peoria that had never left Illinois. My mistake is bringing logic to an emotional topic, I guess.
Your words are very hurtful - it’s like you’re trying to start a fight. If I had insulted your mother, or your traditions or customs, I’d understand [but I wouldn’t do that]. I’m criticizing the disparity of wealth between the majority of Kazakhs in suburbs and aullar and those few living the high-life with the government elite.
I am criticizing the amount of resources that have gone into making Astana a “modern city” when Almaty or Karag’anda or Taldykorgan or even Zhezkezgan would have made more sense. There are Kazakhstani people that agree with me, so it has nothing to do with me not being a “native.” It’s a waste of money to buy an over-the-top lightshow from some German company when children are malnourished, the health care system is atrocious, and the education system is still lower than in the days of the Soviet Union. Celebrations are important, but why does some German company have to receive Kazakh dollars to celebrate Kazakhstan’s capital? Buy a bunch of Chinese fireworks like everyone else. 
Seriously, though - it’s a lot of money Not Going To Your Economy. Why would any Kazakh be for it? Big celebrations are great, but this one is just stupid.
You want to improve Kazakhstan, and I do, too. Sending children to study abroad is not the best answer, either - increase local teacher salaries and accountability, spend more money on quality teaching materials, try to raise the standard of non-city schools, make the country a merit-based society. As long as the mediocre can control the brilliant, the country won’t go very far.
Oldschoolboy, your style of argument is very confrontational, and it sounds like I’m arguing with the partyline and not a person. Put your emotions at arms’ distance, and consider why you’re upset by what I say, and then accuse me of something. Saying that I’m a foreigner and can never understand Kazakhs is a cop-out. Aul Kazakhs have a harder time understanding Almaty Kazakhs, and the Uzbeks in Shymkent have a hard time understanding the Russians in Oskemen. That doesn’t mean their opinions aren’t valid, or that they should “mind their own business.” That sounds like a childish response, to me. That’s the last I’ll say on the topic. Feel free to take the last word.
Time: 6/25/2008, 5:30 pm
Michael,
I never said I am upset or my national pride is hurt and I never said I approve everything going on in Kazakhstan. No, no I am actually your admirer!
I think we should form a commitee to nominate you to a Nobel Prize in two disciplines (i) for developing new concepts in Geographic Science, and (ii) for introducing new laws and principles of city planning.
By the way, thank you for your deep concern for improvement of Kazakhstan. Our people are so grateful to you, Great White Sahib!
Or shall we call you Dances With Wolves? Because you gave as an honour to come down to our Tribe and now you understand everything about our people and ways as we should live, and we are so dumb! Please come back and bring us more of your Wisdom!
If you say so we will make our very few rivers dry to make the Steppe more “dry, flat, wind-swept place of rather poet harshness and beauty”. And then we will destroy our cities, because the Steppe “doesn’t exactly scream for tree-shaded boulevards and quiet riverwalks”. And that will be with total agreement with your oppinion Mr. Righteous Man.
Time: 6/25/2008, 5:59 pm
OK, Michael, I appologize to you too for my harsh comments.
But with your comment you turned rather frivolous discussion into something more political and more agressive.
You picked a fight with someone who is hard to stop if challanged, particularly when a little bit bored with usual routine.
Seriously, I do not know who you are, but I lake the USA as I have spent about the same ammount of time there as you in Kazakhstan and I most of the time that anti-americanism is stupid. However, I can see what it is in Americans that irritates even Canadians. It is this righteousness, that many of them think that they know better than others what people need and how the World works, despite sometimes being very ignorant.
The problem of many americans is that, when for instance people in countries like Kazakhstan or China, or Russia are aware of their own situation and they know where they are, most Americans think that they live in a perfect society and perfect system and are absolutely wise, although they are just heavily brain-washed.
Peace man, I am just having fun.
Time: 6/26/2008, 2:47 am
Michaël, I’m not sure if your last comment is addressed to me or to Oldschool Boy but anyway…
“If only we’d mind our own business…”
:) LOL It was easier in the Iron Curtain days indeed… But well, things are what they are now.
“There are Kazakhstani people that agree with me, so it has nothing to do with me not being a “native.””
Yes. Same experience with me.
“And so what if I lived there for only 2 years - I’m not passing judgment on anything.”
The cliché that “locals know their own country better after all’” is just that: bollocks. Often, sincerely interested outsiders/foreigners who spent some time in the country have clearer, more consistent and fresh views on things and that goes for foreigners in Kazakhstan as well as for Kazakhs(tanis) abroad.
The social-mental and haves-have nots gap in Kazakhstan is enormous. I lived an worked myself long enough in the country, part of it some 100 km outside of Almaty and part in Ust-Kamenogorsk/Öskemen, and I traveled also a large part of it. I remember when I was working there that sometimes Kazakh colleagues from Almaty came with me to the auls in the Ili-Balkash region and that these people were really on another planet: totally ignorant/prejudiced about reality outside of Almaty and their own privileged cocoon and much more uneasy among their rural Kazakh kin than I was… the mankurt-mambet divide.
“Your words are very hurtful - it’s like you’re trying to start a fight.”
Yes, guilty on both charges and confident enough to admit that. Hurtful but realist and sincere. Compare it with a friendship or kinship: what kind of a friend or relative is someone when he always says that everything is great and fine and molodyets, while it is not so and when he says something completely different behind the person’s back?
“Sending children to study abroad is not the best answer, either - increase local teacher salaries and accountability, spend more money on quality teaching materials, try to raise the standard of non-city schools, make the country a merit-based society.”
I agree. Besides, many (understand me well: certainly not all, but certainly many) of those who get sent abroad are decabrats belonging to elite families or kiddies of the well-connected. Also, many of those who come back from the US or EU have gotten used/brainwashed to lifestyles (including fake American accents), expectations and ideas that are totally absent or non-applicable in Kazakhstan or other countries. The result is more frustration and more false expectations and wrong priorities. BTW this is also something that several of my Kazakh aquaintances think.
“or that they should “mind their own business.” “
‘Mind their own business’ is something that someone pulls out when he ran out of ammo.
Time: 6/26/2008, 3:04 pm
Turgai,
I do not get your point. Try to see a big picture.
Yes, we in Kazakhstan failed to build real Socialism and, ultimately, Communism, so there will be social stratification for some time (I guess as anywhere in the World, may be except USA, Kyrgyzstan and the country where you are from).
Now your phrase: “Often, sincerely interested outsiders/foreigners who spent some time in the country have clearer, more consistent and fresh views on things”. I guess I am kind of a morron, because I have spent almost 5 years in North America but still have no clue how thing should go there, not to mention “clearer, more consistent and fresh views on things”.
Believe me my friend, it is not possible to to get “used/brainwashed” or to pick up even fake accent within 2 or 4 years of study, and I know many people who studied in USA or EU. By the way how come somebody who gets degree in science or engineering or health care abroad can have ideas that are totally absent (what does it mean by the way?) or non-applicable in Kazakhstan and other countries? Do you mean that physical (may be no gravity) or any environmental principles and laws do not work in Kazakhstan or those countries you have in mind? Or may be people in Kazakhstan are built differently or have different physiology?
If in your country you were able to build a perfect society, where education and living standards are so high that people do not need to go study or work abroad, where there is no social stratification and poor undestands rich, please you are wellcome to share your wisdom how we should do things in Kazakhstan. We will be very interested. I am serious.
Time: 6/26/2008, 10:01 pm
[This comment is not intended to continue this discussion. I meant what I said about Oldschool Boy getting the last word]
@ Turgai - oh, no, that long comment wasn’t aimed at you. We’re in pretty close agreement on every topic mentioned.
Time: 6/27/2008, 5:04 am
OldSchoolBoy:
Enough with the hostility. Neither Michael nor I nor Nathan could be honestly accused of hating Kazakhstan or wishing for its downfall. Criticizing the country is not verboten for foreigners — especially as an American, I appreciate everyone’s right to be critical of one anothers’ governments. Pointing out the vast wealth disparity in Kazakhstan, and wondering why money is spent on celebrations but not practical measures like institution-building, education, children’s health, or poverty alleviation, is pretty standard practice — especially in the U.S., where that is the main substance of complaints against the Bush administration.
So, basically, either say something substantive (which you normally do) or SHUT UP. Crossing your arms and stomping your feet is just annoying at this point.
Time: 6/27/2008, 7:46 am
OK, folks, looks like you need a fair and balanced referee. I’m qualified. I have completely overcome all my personal biases through heavy drinking. Yep, in vino veritas. Here’s some valuable advice. You can buy me a beer if/when our paths cross.
@Michael: You have shown yourself more pro-Kazakhstan than many people who live in that country. Anyone who takes even a cursory look through your writings on this blog and on your own blog will sense that. Having said that, I’d like to quote a Russian poet who wrote:”It’s not given us to foretell how our words will echo.” Try to be more sensitive. Here are some examples. Some people from Louisiana may not like it if you describe their home as a swamp. And some folks from Harlem may not be happy if you describe their neighborhood as a ghetto. Same with folks who grew up on the Ishim. You don’t have to deliver the truth in a package that grates people’s feelings. Especially since such a constraint wouldn’t limit your ability to express yourself.
@Oldschoolboy: Keep in mind that on this site, people are in agreement with you on almost all problems. Whether problems in your country or any other country, including the US. Look at what they say about the US foreign policy. They are as critical of it as they are of Nazarbaev’s policies. They are consistent. They do make sense on top of that. Here’s an example. A Kazakh blogger (megakhuimyak.livejournal.com) has written that each oblast has had to cough up $3 bln tenge to fund those fireworks. That seems like a lot of money. Wouldn’t it be better spent on schools and hospitals, as Michael suggested?
@Turgai: Your outrage at corruption and stupid decision making that permeates all of the former Soviet Union is understandable. But go easier on emotions and use the freed-up space for saying the substantive stuff. You do seem to know a lot. Put all that in writing and share with the rest of us. P.S. I don’t know if you said anything insensitive. If you did, then see my suggestion to Michael.
@Joshua. Like Michael, you have shown yourself very pro-Central Asian. And your posts suffer from the same weakness as Michael’s. [I understand that it can help generate traffic but I don’t really think that’s your intention.] So, same advice here as to Michael. You are welcome. As I said, you owe me a beer. Also, given the range of subjects you are interested in, both on this blog and the other one, your writings inevitably suffer from another weakness: superficiality. The solution is to be more of a manager less of a writer. Focus on promoting Registan, including recruiting more writers. I think, it’s a total shame that someone like Turgai only posts comments. It’s also a shame that Nathan has been allowed to be a slacker as of late. Write less frequently, using the time to do more background reading. You are very welcome. Sure, two beers would be great. BTW, did you tell Turgay to shut up on that other discussion where he was multiple posting the same text? If not, you should. Just for the sake of integrity.
OK, folks, the ice in my Glenlivet is melting fast. I gotta go. Sorry if I’ve delivered the truth in a package that grates people’s feelings. Had to do that for the sake of clarity. No mean feat when you are writing while intoxicated.
Time: 6/27/2008, 9:18 am
Random Visitor:
Not to pick nits, but the way we’ve described things isn’t exactly grating. If accurately describing the Ishym as a mosquito pit creates such consternation (especially when it is, in fact, a mosquito pit), then the onus is on the reader’s hypersensitivity to national criticism. Similarly, as a former resident of Washington DC I still sometimes bristle when someone inaccurately describes it as a swamp, or build on a swamp (it is neither), but it doesn’t create the blind outrage seen in this thread. And my friends from both Louisiana and Mississippi have laughed and agreed with me when I’ve called their home states swamps!
Being nice and inoffensive is wonderful in the vast majority of cases, but it really can be taken too far. If someone cannot handle a mature, honest, and no-holds-barred discussion, then they are welcome to get their news and analysis of Central Asia elsewhere (you’re right that this isn’t a ploy for readership). This is not a detached academic blog — those exist about the region, and their readership reflects how interesting they are to read — but rather a space for those who are passionate about the region and wish to see it given its right due, both within media coverage but also within the West’s strategic milieu. As such, being dry and perfectly Swedish about the topic really gets us no where.
I’m proud of Registan.net, of where it came from, where it is now, and where it is going in the future. And we’d love to have some company. In case it weren’t already obvious given Nathan’s many calls for it, anyone who wishes to write for us is welcome to—that’s how Michael came on board! Just ask. It is no one’s fault Nathan chooses to spend time with his girlfriend outside of work, or that Michael doesn’t post more book reviews, or that I happen to be much more interested in what’s going on in Afghanistan/Pakistan than the intricacies of Uzbek power politics. We all have our beats we cover, and we each rely on a narrow focus to zoom in on what matters to us (I don’t understand the superficiality dig, though — do you mean about my coverage of Central Asia, or about all of my writing?).
So again: everybody just back the hell off, breathe a bit, chill out, and let’s have a constructive conversation.
Time: 6/27/2008, 9:23 am
Well, since advice is being distributed, in which particularly egregious manner am I slacking? I know I hardly post. Over the past 12-18 months, I’ve had very little motivation to blog. I still haven’t gotten back into the swing of things since I had to cut back while writing my thesis, and nowadays I spend quite a bit of time in my day job focused on a different part of the world. In the interest of keeping a large wall of separation between my day job and Registan.net, I don’t write about said part of the world here.
Anyhow, I’ve tried to move more into a recruit and manage role myself. I’d be delighted to have more people writing here. I have a real problem getting people to follow through after the first post or two.
Time: 6/27/2008, 9:31 am
I think JARV’s criticism isn’t so bad. I always welcome criticism; I do appreciate it when it’s detailed and constructive.
And hey, Josh, I don’t spend all my time outside of work with my better half. I do have a damned lawn that won’t quit growing. (Wait until you see the lawn at the new house — it’s disgustingly unnecessary; I’d let it turn to prairie if I could.) And I have been spending a lot of time cruising the streets of Liberty City and slaughtering teenagers in Halo 3 lately. (My gamertag is Hulagu if anyone would like to join me.)
Believe me, the biggest obstacles for me are motivation and my deep distaste for repeating myself. And there’s unfortunately been a downturn in good fodder for the areas and subjects in which I’m most interested.
Time: 6/28/2008, 2:17 am
I actually like Registan. I can not say I always crazy about articles, but it just because they are often about things that I do not know. For instance, let’s say, Afghanistan. I do not even know hoe it is spelled. Last time I saw Afghani people I was carrying some sort of “international duty”, at least that was how it was explained to me. But it is alright, I still like Registan.
Thank you JARV for being a referee. I know for sure it is hard to be a referee with me. I am an old school. You know, now kids are taught to deal with bullies with some sort of WITS. It is hard for me to understand, because my father always tought me only one way to deal with bullies - fight back. I got this too well; sometimes this fighting can go to the extent of almost becoming a bully myself. Please, nobody take it to his or her address, I am not accusing anybody of being a bully. I am just talking about myself, and I am sort of drunk too.
I can’t really say whether someone cares about Kazakhstan and Central Asia or not. We can write all sorts of stuff. Another thing my father taught me - it does not matter what people say or write, it matters what they do. That is why I am not going to say I am caring about Kazakhstan, and I do not care whether anybody who reads this site cares.
But what I like here is intelligent and balanced discussion. I am sometimes too tired of Worlds crazyness, all I need is my little family and a someone to talk to over beer.
Joshua, JAVR, I never said that nobody can critisize Kazakhstan, everybody wellcome (although, I found long time ago that criticism seldom does anything). So if we agreed that critisizm of a whole country is allowed, and even encouraged, it means that criticism of one person should be allowed too. Shouldn’t it? So, you guys critisize (man, how to spell it?) the entire country, or a government, I critisize a single person. It was Michael (Sorry Michael). You know, as a consultant with some international experience I found out (what the hell, I was trained) that in negotiation it is more fruitful to focus not on an entire cause (or party), but on a person who you talk to.
I found a weak point (points) of Michael and focused on it. It created a lot of emotions!
It should teach him and everybody, including myself, a lesson. Whenever you critisize somebody’s opinion, use only well balanced and well researched arguments. Do your homework. It is even easier with blog discussions, since you have a lot of time to make a research. Never use emotions. I did not, honestly, I have been in Astana only once for 2 days and long time ago, I do not even remember how Ishim looks like, but I have the Internet, Google Earth, etc. You got my idea. Plus, what is the argument “it is too shiny”?
Ok, I am wrapping up, I am also too drunk and can’t gather my thoughts, plus promissed my wife to go to bed earlier.
One more thing, yes, in Kazakhstan we are quite irrational and I am probably the least irrational one.
Time: 6/30/2008, 3:58 am
“But go easier on emotions and use the freed-up space for saying the substantive stuff. (…) I think, it’s a total shame that someone like Turgai only posts comments.”
JARV, I would not call myself an emotional but rather a go-getter and someone who has seen one or two things. Likewise, what happens in CA is much more ‘my business’ that some think just because you were not born and did not grow up in the region. As for contributing more than comments, it is flattering but I don’t have the time to research and write fully-fledged articles for the blogsosphere.
“Being nice and inoffensive is wonderful in the vast majority of cases, but it really can be taken too far. This is not a detached academic blog — those exist about the region, and their readership reflects how interesting they are to read — but rather a space for those who are passionate about the region and wish to see it given its right due, both within media coverage but also within the West’s strategic milieu.”
Yes Joshua. And also, if you don’t play it tough or run into things with a bulldozer, no-one listens. Registan is ‘very American’ and I don’t belong to that sphere but indeed two things I like a lot about the blog is a) that it is written and animated by sincerely interested people and passionates who all have spent certain amounts of time in the region and b) that I reaches out beyond the Southern Soviet rim into Afghanistan and Pakistan too.
There’s also New Eurasia but I find that it has become really tame and boring lately.
“BTW, did you tell Turgai to shut up on that other discussion where he was multiple posting the same text?”
You mean the thread on Protestants in Kyrgyzstan? That message was accidentaly posted six times (st. with the blog) not because I wanted if that way (I’m not gaga to that point yet ).
“This is not a detached academic blog — those exist about the region, and their readership reflects how interesting they are to read (…) As such, being dry and perfectly Swedish about the topic really gets us no where.”
Of course, any similarity to Svante Cornell and John Schöberlein is purely coincidental. LOL
Time: 7/3/2008, 4:46 pm
OK, folks, I don’t want to blow this topic out of proportion. So, please, take this as just a minor footnote.
@Nathan: I hear ya. Motivation is a bitch. But, hey, your writings on Registan boost your visibility. You’ll get noticed in due time. Job offers will follow. It’s nice to face suitors. Feels sexy. Think about all that and inspiration will hit you big time. As always, you are welcome.
@Joshua: Man, you have every right to be proud of Registan. You, Nathan and Michael have made it a top site for all things Central Asian. I wasn’t disputing that.
Onto the main subject. You contradict yourself. You say people shouldn’t be hypersensitive and in right there you admit you are (about DC being a swamp). Well, if you feel the choice is stark, it’s a dichotomy, it’s either the way it is or boring academic prose. Well, then definitely keep it as is. Nobody wants a boring Registan. But if you think shades of gray are possible, then some thoughtfulness wouldn’t hurt. Barnett Rubin, whom you seem to respect, doesn’t suffer fools lightly. But he doesn’t go all out either. The idea is not to bend over backwards to please every random visitor to the site. I don’t think the Oldchoolboy is hypersensitive. Nor is he a random visitor. He’s been coming here for quite some time. He’s been cool and wrote good stuff. There is no evidence that he’s the type who flies off the handle at the slightest irritation. So, why not accommodate his sensibilities instead of risking pushing him away?
I am no expert on any of the subjects you write about. But a pattern does seem to exist. You voice your opinion and then some expert with tons of verifiable expertise under his belt shows up and says you are wrong. Your counter-response sometimes feels like a backtracking. Overtime, good folks here can unjustly think of you and Registan as a place where some dudes just blow hot air. Again, the idea is not either-or. It’s more about a balance between using the time just to write or using the time to read a lot and then write. Just my 2 cents’ worth.
@Oldschoolboy: By the looks of it, you know what you say about doing your “internationalist duty”, you are old enough that we can say you got good, old Soviet education. Those commies were good at drilling into people’s heads the idea that criticizing the government or the state equals insulting the country. I’m not saying you have that attitude. But I think it’’s sitting in the back of the head of all the former Soviets. It’s good to be on the lookout for it before it jumps into action. Or, you can dissolve it in a massive amount of a good single malt stuff. The way I handle difficult attitudes of mine.
Time: 7/4/2008, 10:25 am
Thanks. The blog has already helped me land a good job. I do encourage new talent to join as writing her has worked out very well for me.
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